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¤KR¤AcidSlam
15th January, 2002, 08:29 PM
Sorry if this is covered anywhere else, but im dieing to know when it will be a full release. Clanbase is so fucked up with averge clans suddenly becoming unstoppable, my clan has stopped accepting challenges until we get pure on our server. The only problem being is that Jolt refuse to put it on until a full realease is made, so do you guys have an estimate of when it's due ?

My first post on this forum, i'd like to thank the Pure/Cshp team for doing all this for nothing seeing as Epic wont bother there arses. Nice work :D

HogMan
16th January, 2002, 01:01 AM
If this helps any, the current version runs very well and I would recommend that anyone using CSHP or an older UTPure upgrade to the current version. It has been tested and many people are running it without problems.

I know it doesn't answer all of your question, but just thought I'd post my 2cents.

DarkByte
16th January, 2002, 02:32 AM
Hi Acid,

Regarding a release date for Pure... humm .. i can't really tell yet. Pure is progressing very good and i'm trying my best to make it rock solid. But i'm still cutting more and more cheats on every release i do.

All i can say is that i'm close to the first release. If RC5 ends up being stable i will probably label it as stable.

¤KR¤AcidSlam
16th January, 2002, 03:24 AM
Thanks for the info DB, are we estimating a few weeks here then ? I wish Jolt would just put it on now and upgrade when needed.

Every war played atm is surrounded by paranoia, and it is killing the fun in the game. I dread the day when the bot makers cant be stopped, but eventually it will arrive i fear :(

DarkByte
16th January, 2002, 05:41 AM
Bot Makers will always be stopped, and they will always figure out a way around .. the question is .. how long can i hold them before needing to code again !

Grave
17th January, 2002, 07:14 PM
just leave jolt severs as we did (no fun as you said, to see cheater on every second map played)
they will notice when no one will play on their servers.

Bry
17th January, 2002, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by Grave
just leave jolt severs as we did (no fun as you said, to see cheater on every second map played)
they will notice when no one will play on their servers.

we passed the 900 people playing mark constantly on our servers jsut a few days ago :)

TNSe
18th January, 2002, 09:14 PM
Yeah, I was playing on public jolt servers.

During my 2.5 hour stay, I encountered 4 aimbotters, 6 or so people with radars, and a good deal of them were using some form of timer. (They might have been changing skins/names between games)

[frUT]-BaNNana
19th January, 2002, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Bry


we passed the 900 people playing mark constantly on our servers jsut a few days ago :)

Hey Bry....

What bugs me (mildly mind) is that Jolt are not willing to allow us to start beta testing UTPure....We are willing to put up with all sorts of problems, lag crashes etc....But all we get from u and Res is NOPE, not until out of beta....

We accept that there maybe problems, and u know me, I will accept these in good faith and not blame the admin teams at Jolt for any issues...

Its just we are running a 1 v 1 league, and I have some sneaking suspicions....Everyone in clan want it installed warts and all....

I notice that the CS boys get the opurtunity to put all sorts of crap cheats on etc, and they are causing all sorts of hassles that the admin teams are getting blamed for, but that isnt the case here......

What does Jolt need from us to install this.... a written disclaimer ? Blood on paper ? Whatever it takes I'll do it, coz UT is shite now, and we dont want to play much bcoz we believe that peeps are cheating.......

Really what I need to know is y Jolt are so reticent on installing this package ? Res is a tight-lipped sod when it comes to how the UT servers are put together, and as a paying customer I think that we do have (a little) right to how it works, and a reasonable explanation as to why you wont install it, rather than "it isnt out of beta, get stuffed".

Soz to bring this up here in a forum other than jolt, but Ive tried to get some answers inthe forum, but the Jolt "im not telling u" policy, and the flame thread that follows doesnt help.....maybe in a more reasonable forum such as this I can get a better answer........

Darren.

Bry
19th January, 2002, 03:14 PM
Bannana This has already been dealt with in the clanserver forum on jolt m8

[frUT]-BaNNana
19th January, 2002, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Bry
Bannana This has already been dealt with in the clanserver forum on jolt m8

tbh i dont think so, but ur right, wrong place to hold this discussion....But I dont want to go through..."The answer is No coz I say so" routine with u guys....


:(

TNSe
19th January, 2002, 08:21 PM
What I don't like about Jolts policy is how they refuse to use something that isn't finished, which they are dependant on installing as soon as it leaves beta.

They charge money for servers, and want a product free, without even wanting to help us test it.

The only thing they are accomplishing is to delay the release, since we cannot be sure if it has been properly tested. I for one know that their custom scoreboards (and most likely jolt logo) will not work with UTPureRC5b, I have fixed them to work, but since they are not willing to test, I am leaning towards just dropping everything I have done for them.

Elvis
19th January, 2002, 09:51 PM
That's what I'm missing...A custom scoreboard and an Elvis logo!

[frUT]-BaNNana
19th January, 2002, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by TNSe
What I don't like about Jolts policy is how they refuse to use something that isn't finished, which they are dependant on installing as soon as it leaves beta.

They charge money for servers, and want a product free, without even wanting to help us test it.

The only thing they are accomplishing is to delay the release, since we cannot be sure if it has been properly tested. I for one know that their custom scoreboards (and most likely jolt logo) will not work with UTPureRC5b, I have fixed them to work, but since they are not willing to test, I am leaning towards just dropping everything I have done for them.

Please dont m8, we the lowly paying public, believe in what u guys do, trust me...

And I know Bry does 2....

We are screaming to test this, and finally im beginning to understand....

Hell if the logo is so important, f00k it, ill amend one of the skins to have logo on back, and wear it in server if thats what it takes....

I have so many clan members unhappy about the cheating, that we will do anything to get it on the server...

As a paying member, we are willing to sacrifice performance, issues and help as part of the beta team to get it to a stable level...As Bry knows very well, I NEVER whinge and moan about glitches with the server, and as a System Manager myself, more than understand how events are out of the admin's control. I constantly support them when dickheads start mouthing off about problems etc....

What I want to know is, WHY did it take one of u guys to tell me that there were issues with logo/scoreboard (wtf is that? Only mod i know is clickboard2, one of ur mods hehe).

All I get is ....not out of beta, no can do....

I notice that the CS boys get every new / incomplete / f00ked anti-cheat going, causing mucho grief and complaints...

3 of our clan members are IT pukes anyway....We know the score....Let us help u to help us....

D.

P.S. Got to be said Bry, its better and more civilised to have this conversation here, without mass load of crap in thread...

Bry
19th January, 2002, 10:38 PM
This is the final thing i will eb saying here anythign else can always be talked about to me privately.

First of all i do not understand why Jolt is being singled out here when Barrysworld and Blueyonder both are not running UTpure as well. BW do clanservers and BY will soon be doing bookables.

Now anything and everything i have said here has not and i repeat not been what i believe or think. This is Jolt's policy and what my superiors have told me. So please do not think i do not appreciate CSHP/UTpure and the work that goes into it. TNSE i believe you know this.


I notice that the CS boys get every new / incomplete / f00ked anti-cheat going, causing mucho grief and complaints...  

Then you must also have noticed how much pings have been doubled, the fact it is beign removed and the fact that there are a lot more CS servers than UT and the fact of different operating systems means different access.



They charge money for servers, and want a product free, without even wanting to help us test it.

That is the fact that Jolt charge money and servers are paid for and they look in the long term and dont want service/reputation spoiled by non-final releases whcih affects all servers(being very general here)

Now plus take into account the fact that installign Utpure would take me a few hours which i really dont have and i doubt Res has too and the fact their has been all these release candidates would means we jsut cant updating the servers everytime another release candidate has been released

TNSe
19th January, 2002, 11:23 PM
I was not asking you to install on all your servers. A public one or two would be perfect. And as said, you will most likely have problems with your custom jolt scoreboards & probably the logo as well, but I've been working on a fix for you. But the lack of interest to get anything tested really pisses me off.

rivmin
20th January, 2002, 03:37 AM
I use a custom made logo with voice, and there is no conflict with UTPureRC4d....but it's not displaying with 5b ?

Server is running at uv.orangenet.dk:7777

If Jolt is taking money for servers, then they should be very interested in making their servers as cheater-free as possible, and helping the people that is doing a very nice job on the cheat-protection.
Just my point-of-view.

Regarding the 'taking several hours to setup servers to use UTPure'....it will take less than 30 seconds pr server to implement.

Slash
21st January, 2002, 01:02 PM
I think this is a win/win situation for all of us...Jolt doesnt suppot pure,so companys that do get fixes and addons for their logos and scorboards and Jolts customers..Jolt looses money and customers because they are selfish and greedy..Then they have to hire team to make their own cheat protection and test it..Then they cant get it to work and they loose more money and customers..Then the few servers they have left all run CSHP and everyone knows that u can cheat on them...Then the cheaters go play on the jolt servers and leave the rest of us alone...They can finally have a place to call home...Since Jolt is willing to help out the cheaters they should get to have all of them on their servers...Then DB and the rest of the team can have a well deserved break since the cheaters wont release new bots and try to crack pure cause they can all play on Jolt servers with no problem....

I would like to thank Jolt for making all of our lives easier...

Thx Jolt...

Are any other server companys on the exchange cause Slash thinks it's time to buy stock in the Jolt Compitition..

TNSe
21st January, 2002, 01:49 PM
Heh

For the record:

I like the Jolt servers VERY well, and use them daily. They are very stable servers ping/performance.


I'm just a bit disappointed to see that they fail to see that it's themselves they are hurting in the long run by not being willing to do something simple as actually running 1 or 2 public ffa servers with UTPure.

The "official" explanation is that they are afraid to lose face if their servers has problem.

Let me tell you the current situation: Tons of clans renting your servers are daily requesting you to install UTPure, which you refuse. I'd say that is a bigger issue.

The longer it takes before a bugrapport comes in, the longer it will take to fix it up. And we want to make sure the bugs are squashed before any final release.

Mr_Nobody{PoD}
21st January, 2002, 04:21 PM
I'm not familiar with any of the servers mentioned in this thread, but I'd like to suggest that this forum is really not a good place to criticize server admins for how they run their servers.

Clearly, some admins have reasons of their own for not upgrading to UTPure for the time being. Many admins have had very positive experiences with UTPure, but it seems that some early problems with high pings have made a few admins a little gun-shy. Perfectly understandable, if you ask me.

The admins in question clearly know that they have the option to test UTPure on one or two isolated machines, and they know where to go if they have questions or problems. They are also clearly aware that the version of CSHP they are currently running has been publicly broken. And I'm fairly certain they know that servers that are not running the latest stable version of UTPure are no longer legal for matches on at least two ladders that I know of (OGL and IGL).

In any case, I'm sure that they are doing the best they can with the tools and the resources that they have. And as others have pointed out, there are plenty of other servers to play on if you don't like the way that a particular server is set up :cool: But please, let's keep this forum focused on UTPure and not on telling admins how they should be configuring their servers.

</rant>

[frUT]-BaNNana
21st January, 2002, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Mr_Nobody{PoD}
I'm not familiar with any of the servers mentioned in this thread, but I'd like to suggest that this forum is really not a good place to criticize server admins for how they run their servers.

Clearly, some admins have reasons of their own for not upgrading to UTPure for the time being. &nbsp;Many admins have had very positive experiences with UTPure, but it seems that some early problems with high pings have made a few admins a little gun-shy. &nbsp;Perfectly understandable, if you ask me.

The admins in question clearly know that they have the option to test UTPure on one or two isolated machines, and they know where to go if they have questions or problems. &nbsp;They are also clearly aware that the version of CSHP they are currently running has been publicly broken. &nbsp;And I'm fairly certain they know that servers that are not running the latest stable version of UTPure are no longer legal for matches on at least two ladders that I know of (OGL and IGL).

In any case, I'm sure that they are doing the best they can with the tools and the resources that they have. &nbsp;And as others have pointed out, there are plenty of other servers to play on if you don't like the way that a particular server is set up :cool: &nbsp;But please, let's keep this forum focused on UTPure and not on telling admins how they should be configuring their servers.

</rant>


err dont forget us lowly paying customers who rent servers m8....

But ur right....Ill just keep coming back to this forum to find out why Jolt arent doing it , and not in the Jolt forums......Unhappily this is true....

However b coz the admins say that this is a management issue, I will go to management for an answer......

nough said on this.....

D.

Azazel
12th February, 2002, 07:16 PM
However b coz the admins say that this is a management issue, I will go to management for an answer......
And as such you've learnt your first lesson in life.
No offence to Res or Bry but if you want things doing see the Organ Grinder not the monkey.

Res & Bry et al, BW admins, BY admins .. just about any admins have the same problems.

1st they have a set of rules from management.
2nd they have lots of servers to run.

I understand you are a paying customer but there are lots of paying customers, because of this you must see the bigger picture - whatever they do (it appears) will affect every UT server ... what if the release is a dud ... how quick will you be on there backs then?

Don't get me wrong, I want to see Pure on Jolt servers as much as you but only when its been tested and is right.
Its better than getting 200 pings and 50% packet loss all the time instead of just on league nights ;);)

Resonate
12th February, 2002, 08:29 PM
OK I have only just seen this thread and thought it best I reply.

For a start I am the management so any questions ask me.

As ive discussed in previous threads my reasons for not implementing this at this stage is due to its lack of support for jolts custom packages which we require to make our servers unique.

My original reason is due to bad experiences with former versions of CSHP grinding our servers to a halt. This consequently cost my company a great deal in lost revenue due to cancelled subscriptions through no fault of our hardware or connectivity.

I love playing games as much as you guys, however, im sure you all appreciate Jolt is a buisness and any business needs money to run which is why decisions such as this are applied globally when we feel ready to go with it.

We are helping in the testing of this. Our League server number 16 is running the latest package and is frequently used for league games. The only problems I have with it are highlighted above.

I have been informed by the team that the next version that will support all of Jolt's custom packages is now ready but some guy is witholding the code.

Rest assured that as soon as this is released we will be doing a trial rollout with immediate effect on several of our clan servers.

Until then patience would be appreciated from all our customers whilst the transition is undertaken.

Azazel
13th February, 2002, 02:11 AM
Looks like we've found the organ grinder!

Thanks for the feedback Res :)

[frUT]-BaNNana
13th February, 2002, 09:44 PM
Whoo Hoo

Res has posted that he needs servers to betatest UTPure....

U DA MAN Res (does that mean I get it intsalled faster ? ;) )

....On the road again......


D.

Resonate
13th February, 2002, 09:57 PM
As I said im still waiting for the team to pass me the release.

Qixil
15th February, 2002, 09:47 AM
As for a mod grinding down the servers...

If the mod only affects the server with the mod, then get the guys renting the servers decide what is running on them and have a logo that says "UTPure was requested for this server - service MAY be affected". Maybe tell them that they MAY be charged for subsequent (un)installation of the mod.

For clan matches, just point the guys to the flavour requested. This way you just need to manage the 'transition' instead of flipping the switch for everyone.

And your customers get what they want - choice. And you get what you want - a managed transition with minimal risks.

(I'm not charging consultancy for this ok?)

Q8

PS: If the mod affects the performance of all your servers regardless, then I'll prepare to eat my hat.

$GB$Chicken
15th February, 2002, 03:27 PM
Umm, no offense TNse but how do you know for sure all those people cheated?

And Jolt your obviously proud of your servers so why don't you do what the people want and upgrade your cheat protection??

$GB$Chicken
15th February, 2002, 03:29 PM
I'm running 7 servers with UTPure RC5b and I have no complaints.

There isn't any noticeable difference in ping even if I turn off UTPure.

Resonate
15th February, 2002, 05:29 PM
Try reading my post again mate - i think its answer all your points.

TNSe
15th February, 2002, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by $GB$Chicken
[B]Umm, no offense TNse but how do you know for sure all those people cheated?

When a guy does multikill on 3 respawners and then walks into the acid on deck16 because he is totally disoriented, and then I reconnect to spec him, he quits server.. that usually triggers my cheat suspicion :P

There is a difference between killing 3 ppl in front of you, and 3 ppl across the entire map. (1st: shock under sniper, 2nd, big box beside pulse, 3rd, high sniper. All headshots. Then he walks into acid.)

[frUT]-BaNNana
16th February, 2002, 04:35 PM
TNSe

Nice demoenhancer mod btw, once I figured how it worked :) Thats been bugging me in serverside dems for ages ! :)

(OK OK I didnt realise it would generate a text file on install, DOH)

Onto my conituing battle to get UTPure on our clansever....

Having spoken to Res, he now says that he is waiting on final release code from u guys .....whats the holdup ?

Jolt are saying that I should be complaining to u guys.....

Im not going to complain, but is there any sign of a release to Jolt ? I assume its to do with the bloody Jolt logo thingy.....

There are about 6 or so clans that are signed up for the beta test of this...ANd we are all waiting with baited breath.

We will supply u with all the data and feedback u require. As it is we will lose our support from Jolt during this trial period. The servers are both use dfor wars and FFA, so u will get a thorough test, and we will respond back to any issues fairly promptly.

I hope this will help u in the beta test.....

Heres to cheat free Jolt.

D.

COP
21st February, 2002, 09:32 PM
With Blueyonder being mentioned then I need to make a point..

Blueyonder is still very much a new service and currently running in beta mode and so not in a position to test the latest beta versions for Dark and the team...

When that changes and everythings stable and the bookables are launched then we will happily do what we can has we did at Wireplay with Dr Sin.

Andy