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[BWF]GrimReaper
9th March, 2002, 01:05 PM
Hi all, you pobabilly hate my guts, i don't blame you. UTPure should last a bit longer without me attempting hacks on it.

I've started development on ZP2 and v2.02 is in testing phase.

I'm also working on a new type of security which in theory should make hacking VERY VERY hard. I do not have much time right now but i'll lay down the idea and maybe the UTPure team sees a good idea to work on.



My idea is the following. (i'm quite far with the security programming).

Make a small package checker like CSHP4+ did. This way you can't fuck with the packages. Make sure that all requested packages where checked (count the checked packages)

Add forced downloading.

Add hardcoded verification number to be returned.

Add a server side kick timer.

Add a tool to randomize the hardcoded code.
Also let this tool randomize the actor names.
Also let this tool add and remove packages which must be checked. (This is why i want to make it because it will protect ZP and all other vulnerable mods)



This way it will be hard for the hacker to isolate the antihack in his UT system.
All hacks apply to only one server.
Proxy hacks checking for "OBJ LINKERS" won't work cos all checked packages are counted and you can't intercept the OBJ request because you can't isolate the anti-cheat.

The forced download can be reduced to +/- 5kb which is a small price to pay for security.

Also when a server is hacked the server admin can randomize the hack and restart the server and is hackproof for a good few hours (if the hacker is really persistent).



Too make sure that you don't get cache overflow after a day of gaming or version type mismatch you must make sure that all randomized anti-hacks GUID stay the same.


Like my idea or did i miss something which is very vulnerable.

TNSe
9th March, 2002, 09:23 PM
Well, you just majorly fucked up demos. Congrats!

[BWF]GrimReaper
9th March, 2002, 09:45 PM
Demos?? i don't get it.

TNSe
9th March, 2002, 09:48 PM
I agree that you don't get it.

[BWF]GrimReaper
9th March, 2002, 10:02 PM
I'm not here to fight you. But i have a feeling you really really really hate me. I can understand that, but i've switched over to mod making and anti-cheat creation.

So i can either tell you how i can get past UTPUre in every way i know of or not, you chose.

I have shitloads of info i'm willing to share like my anti-cheat proposal. And holes in utpure which need fixing.

I'm only here to help not to start a fight. I've already fought my way out of cheatspeak and into ZPWorld.

TNSe
9th March, 2002, 10:05 PM
Why do you think I hate you because I said that it will break demos? Don't give me that paranoia stuff.

talon
9th March, 2002, 10:18 PM
Go on Grim. We're listening.

Mr_Nobody{PoD}
9th March, 2002, 10:28 PM
Heh ... welcome to the Other Forums, Grim :D

"Hate your guts" is probably too strong. Obviously, the public aimbots you released made things hard on all the admins here, who had to deal with huge waves of cheaters and (what's worse IMHO) aimbot paranoia. I don't know exactly how many demos I had to watch, or how many matches I had to spectate, because people knew that our servers were no longer secure. In short, being an admin was a pain for a while there, and (let's be frank) that was basically your fault.

But I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Clearly, you have a knack for locating and compromising security holes, and clearly you are a more talented coder than most (all?) of the regulars on the cheat forums. I realize that this is not much of a compliment :P Nonetheless, if you have sincerely chosen to help improve UT cheat protection, I welcome you to our cause---I'd rather have you with us than against us.

I hope you understand that the Pure crew has been burned by "helpers" from the cheat community before; because of that, trust and forgiveness will come slowly for many in the anticheat camp. That being said, I look forward to seeing what comes from your ideas, and I hope that you and the team find time to get together and really talk through your new concept in more detail. (IRC might be a better place for that discussion than here, though.)

DrSiN
10th March, 2002, 02:17 AM
No, we are not listening. You are not welcome here.

DarkByte
10th March, 2002, 05:23 AM
Well,

Don't want to be a PITA but i've read part of a thread where he explains how to "SECURE" UT, and all he's brought forward were techniques already overdiscussed by me, DrSiN and UsAaR33, that's even before TNSe was on board.

Nothing new in his solution, nothing exploitable short terms. Not even a guarantee of exploitation long term.

sparkkey
10th March, 2002, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by DrSiN
No, we are not listening.  You are not welcome here.

lol

it doesn't get any funnier than that

Xx Badblood xX
11th March, 2002, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by DrSiN
No, we are not listening.  You are not welcome here.

Thats disappointing. :(

InsaneDruid
11th March, 2002, 12:10 PM
No, it isn´t disappointing.

DrSiN
11th March, 2002, 04:14 PM
Thats disappointing. :(

Why is that? Remember what this idiot did and then think do you want him here. Like others before him, he decided to ruin the game for a lot of people just for kicks. And I should be nice to him.

Wow.. so now he claims he wants to fix it.. hmm.. where have we heard that before. Yet he keeps chatting it up at cheatspeak.. keeps distributing his bytehacking bible.. keeps calling for someone else to write cheats. Give me a break.

He not only deserves to be banned from here.. we should find him and kick his ass too.. just for kicks.

Grave
11th March, 2002, 04:20 PM
Dr.Sin And Silent Admins Strike Back :D

Highlander
11th March, 2002, 05:32 PM
I am going to take the middle road here cause i am a wuss and new to this forum. Grim you wrote an aimbot and you continue to help people create new bots, even if its indirectly. You are repairing a hole you created and claiming to do things that these people already do. Granted you hacked zp and you created a new version of zp with new features and prehaps even better code. I will probabaly use it in fact, but dont think i wont keep my old copy just in case. You are the classic wolf is sheeps clothing serieno. The ZP community will now, more than likley use your zp mod cause you hacked the old one. After the above comments, you might make using CSHP on zp servers not possible. YOu may claim you have cheat protection but your words are tainted with cheating breath. (I like that one). If you want to be considered to be a vaild source of mods and anitcheat protection, in my opinion, you must first apologize for helping bring about the ruin of a wonderful game. You then must sever all ties with cheat speak saving only your account to check up on them to stop the new bots that are out. Lastly you are to apologize to the cshp team to come in here, in their forum and expertiese, and claim you are now on their side. Trust is usually given very eaisly but very hard to earn back. You having, as if yet, done nothing to help the community. If you claim that the zp mod you created is a help, then you are mistaken, it is just a hole you dug up and filled back with your own dirt. Start filling up other holes, and take the shit your going to receive from everyone, and do it with a smile, and maybe just maybe we will come to embrace you, or you can just change your name and bash your old one and then come in to help with no one the wiser. As it stands you see this as just a boundless game and decided to switch sides. A cheater that admints that he cheats and does it freely and openly I can respect for at least he picks a side. One that cheats but does it in secret or claims to see the light, i have little respect, for they are cowards and you cant respect a coward. So more power to you if you are here to help, but there is a long road ahead of you, you have to build then walk, to gain creditability here. If you are here to fuck with us, then in the immortal words of Plato "Why dont you go in the woods and play hide and go fuck yourself" He said that right?

Highlander

HogMan
11th March, 2002, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by DrSiN
Thats disappointing. :(

Why is that?  Remember what this idiot did and then think do you want him here.  Like others before him, he decided to ruin the game for a lot of people just for kicks.  And I should be nice to him.

Wow.. so now he claims he wants to fix it.. hmm.. where have we heard that before.  Yet he keeps chatting it up at cheatspeak.. keeps distributing his bytehacking bible.. keeps calling for someone else to write cheats.  Give me a break.

He not only deserves to be banned from here.. we should find him and kick his ass too.. just for kicks.

Not to mention the example this sets. People should not expect a welcome invitation after causing so many problems. Maybe people will think twice before doing what Grim did if they decide they actually want to help out in the end.

Xx Badblood xX
11th March, 2002, 09:05 PM
I didn't expect you guys to lay down the red carpet or anything. I think what's important is that he's programming on our side and not the cheater's side. Having fixed zp (the same mutator that was screwed by the zptod-yes i understand this) and added features that we've wanted in zp for a long time, I feel he is even with the community.

I guess what I was hoping is he'd have a chance to prove that he is now anti-cheat. Not to be written off immediately for his past.

Does this mean you should give him admin to the forums? or the secrets to pure and cshp? Should he be your drinking buddy? Don't think so. But he also has some ideas for cheat protection, and I think its worth a look. Yes, his idea will create a few challenges that will need to be worked around, but hey, he obviously knows where to find security holes, so now lets give him a shot at closing them up.

Do you have to like him? Nah, I doubt that you will for a long time (if ever). We already know what he's capable of in programming cheats, now let's give him a chance at programming cheat protection.

flaago
11th March, 2002, 09:47 PM
I dont give a shit about he can be trusted or not, but I have a question about his idea on different downloads on every server.

Will this destroy demo replay totally, or is there a way to avoid this? Like encoding the used download into the demo when you record it.
If we look away from the demo problem, will his method stop bot making, or will it be easy to get around?

Hans.

sparkkey
11th March, 2002, 10:48 PM
For those who haven't followed the evolution of cshp vs. cheaters over the past year, I would have to compare this to Bin Laden contacting the US govt saying that he would like to help eliminate terrorism starting with pointing out holes in US security, and suggesting things like "checking for bombs in suitcases" and "adding more security personal", and oh... "I'll even hire and screen the people for you..."

Even CONSIDERING his suggestions is a DOUBLE SLAP IN THE FACE to the UTPURE team:

Slap one: UTPURE team is so incompetent that they could NEVER have possibly thought of "that"...

Slap two: I don't CARE that these people have spent their SPARE TIME over that last year (for FREE) trying to make MY game play more fair and enjoyable... Just tell me what the cheater(s) have to say, and how they will help save the day....

Just some food for thought...


-S

TNSe
11th March, 2002, 10:59 PM
Thanks sparkey, I think you hit it right on there.

flaago
11th March, 2002, 11:26 PM
No, I dont think its a slap in anyones face.
The CSHP team have been VERY careful NOT to disturb too much of the game.
I would maybe say that they have been too careful, AND I have been following the development of CSHP since the beginning.

If bots can be stopped once and for all, by sacrificing demoes, then I think its worth a thought. Not saying its the sollution, but worth discussing.

The way it is now, people have to upgrade protection once every few weeks. Neither can you be sure of someone having a private bot that is not protected.

Sparkey; Indicating that people are stupid just for discussing the subject is not the right way of handling this discussion. I was only asking for the pro and conns of the idea. Ofcourse the team have thought about it, but maybe they could enlighten us that have not.

TNSe
11th March, 2002, 11:32 PM
Thinking that bots can be stopped once & for all is too naive for me to even bother reading what you said.

flaago
11th March, 2002, 11:38 PM
Thx for you well written and in depth explanation.

TNSe
11th March, 2002, 11:41 PM
It should not need any further explanation.

sparkkey
12th March, 2002, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by flaago

Sparkey; Indicating that people are stupid just for discussing the subject is not the right way of handling this discussion.  


To misconstrue my post as "Indicating people are stupid" is a bit of a stretch. I am all for people posting their opinion (even yours) but I am not interested in the advise of someone who has been passing out keys to my front door telling me how my home security system should work.

-S

Bourne
12th March, 2002, 12:59 AM
(Less than 3 weeks ago)
"You've proababily heard me brag about having hacked UTPure, well
i have, and to prove it i've rebuilt a little elfbot antipure edition.
... Have fun you cheating motherfuckers and if you see a guy called
[BWF]GrimReaper or [BWF]Hellmo! you are required to type 'Suicide'
in yer console comprende! ... The hitcounter on this thread is going tits up
LOL i feel pretty good maybe i should have asked for ca$h ... I'll try and rip
out more of the pure guts so you can start using things like
Invisible skins
Fov ability
etc.
I'll also see if i can fuck up R4 R3 R2 and R1"

"I am technically a non cheater now, but i'm willing to help anyone with questions
on hacking, mod making, bytehacking the whole works. I am not gonna do any hacks
anymore unless for testing purposes. Hacking is not hard."

"I don't hate cheaters and i don't hate non-cheaters. I help both sides. For the
reasons mentioned above i am now active for the non-cheaters and am not planning
on making hacks for UT or UT2. I will provide info on hacking etc if peeps want it.
Good Luck with cheating (God this is like Luke SkyWalker with Darth Vader
(Saga between good and evil))"

(under [BWF]Hellmo!)
"Yesterday i was playing at Boomtown, and they asked me to leave cause i was winning
all the time, then he asked me to join a non cheatable server... LOL UTPURE,
and there i was LMAO!!! "

"I'm proud of me and my bot, if i get to #1 with it i deserved it."

"Lol Soom [sic] UTPure will become too big so peeps won't use it"


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by _spare_mint_
Will u come back after the ZeroPing shit and
continue to make those greate cheats?

Please...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Yes"

"Look i know but ZP is a good concept for future games. Seriously
it gives all players equal connections. It's inherrently vulnerable
and i'm gonna attempt to make it less vulnerable. This way peeps will have to
make propper scripts to get botting on ZP. "

"Lol i seriously offered my help for ZP cause i saw potential.
Anyways until now they don't want my ZP2. I asked them online.
If this remains i will have to return to my hacking.
LOL"

"Hello everyone,
I must tell you all that i've agreed to close the ZP hole.
It was fun but even aimbots seem fair compared with this thing.
I will not stop botting though."

"I will continue hacking but i am gonna do
ZP development on the side ok.
Until no one fucks with ZP anymore, and then i start
building bots again."

"I'm sorry i ruined UT, but
These hacks are meant as bit of fun for me and the other peeps here.
But also i'm trying to say is "If you put your mind to it you can do anything"
I am considering stopping due to the risks but these sucky mods with hole
mayhem ask for it"

"The end of ZP as we know it
Sorry ZP lovers but this thing will fuck up ZP for sure."

sparkkey
12th March, 2002, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by Bourne
(Less than 3 weeks ago)
"You've proababily heard me brag about having hacked UTPure, well  
i have, and to prove it i've rebuilt a little elfbot antipure edition.  
... Have fun you cheating motherfuckers and if you see a guy called  
[BWF]GrimReaper or [BWF]Hellmo! you are required to type 'Suicide'  
in yer console comprende! ... The hitcounter on this thread is

Thanks Bourne... ALMOST forgot about that post... I think that puts things in proper perspective.
Also note, that is but a SMALL SMALL fraction of the postings and is far from the most "severe", but it certainly gives insight....

...and some people are considering his input?

I especially like the "I'm sorry for ruining UT..." quote. How long before he gets "bored" again and uses any of his "positive input" to his advantage in undoing any progress in UTPURE?



-S



-S
;)

Xx Badblood xX
12th March, 2002, 01:34 AM
But you totally screwed up the chronology of it... whether that was on purpose or not, I don't know.

Here is a proper timeline...

3 weeks ago:

ZP servers are inundated with players with the name WWW.XXXXXXXXXX.COM (http://WWW.XXXXXXXXXX.COM) (i dunno if I am allowed to post the site or not, so erring on the side of caution, I've x'd it out) advertising a cheaters forum website.

The ZP community having no support (author abandoned the zp code), had only one recourse: annoyance. The initial form of retribution was flooding the hell out of the forums in question, hoping to move the hack off the bottom of the forum cache.

This pissed off the cheater's and the hack attacks increased. One of the members of ZP posted a message to Grim telling him the situation with zp and saying essentially, since you've had your fun and all, please help make a new version that won't be hacked easily. I never believed speaking logically with a cheater could make them do an about face (and most cheaters, I still believe wouldn't), but thankfully Grim agreed to help make a fix for zp, because he sees the value in a stable, secure client-side hit scan.

2 weeks ago:

Development started on the new zp. The original deal was that Grim would simply fix zp and go back to doing what he does. Shortly after the start of developing zp2, he wanted to make sure the community would support it, cuz even he realizes it seems a bit absurd that the person who destroyed zp, is now fixing zp. I posted a poll (http://pub25.ezboard.com/fzpworldfrm6.showMessage?topicID=409.topic) on zpworld, and at first, the response was understandably negative(hence his post about them not wanting my help), and it looked at that point that Grim was just going to give up and go back to hacking and botting. So, I tried to open up the discussion on the forums to see how we could get Grim to conitinue, and have the support of the community. Eventually, most people realized, that it can't hurt if he does make a new zp, because even if it were to have back doors or what not, we could simply fall back on the original zp.

Development on zp2 moved forward. As an interesting twist, someone on zpworld raised the point (http://pub25.ezboard.com/fzpworldfrm6.showMessageRange?topicID=409.topic&start=48&stop=50) that no one would take the new zp seriously if Grim was still botting, and that a future in real programming was far more likely as an anti-cheat than a cheat. From that time, Grim has given up cheats. He does give advice to cheaters, but Grim's own cheating has stopped. I myself will admit that I'm not comfortable with the fact that he will still help cheaters, but hey our situation now is better than it was before. Maybe he'll take the final step and not help the cheaters out. Time will tell.

1 week ago:

zp2 was released for the first time and it didn't work. A few bugs became obvious when put on a server and it was time make some fixes. During that "fixing" stage, team colour matched instagib shots were added along with some other minor improvements, along with full zp functionality.

2 days ago:

The first successful release of zp2.

Edit: PS- This timeline is meant to be as accurate and objective as possible, not simply a selective cut and paste to prove a point.

DrSiN
12th March, 2002, 05:33 AM
YEA!!! so he's actually trying to clean up the major mess he made..

Doesn't make him any less of an asshole.

I have one suggestion for the ZP community.. kiss up to this guy bigtime. He's not helping you because he cares.. he's simply stroking his own ego. Read his posts on Cheatspeak, see how he introduced himself here..

It's all about props to this guy.. good or bad.

Frankly, he's not worth it. Sorry, but masskills for ZP are OLD news (first one was made 2 days after ZP was released) and I'm willing to bet ZP2 doesn't stop 1/2 of what's out there.

So, if the zp community is going to lay their hope on this guy.. pucker up.

DrSiN
12th March, 2002, 06:15 AM
Wow.. I just came from ZPWorld.. like wow.. man.. funny. Especially the guy calling him a god.. that was a hoot.

I'm actually going to give you some adivce here Grim..

First, try to actually write a tool that allows you to massage a demo so that it can work with an altered version of a single .U. You don't seem to have a clue as to how the demo system works.

Second.. OBJ LINKER is a REALLY BAD idea.. there is a reason CSHP was discontinued and DB went to UTPure. The truth is. OBJ LINKER can be 100% spoofed.

Third, any actor you spawn can be tracked and destroyed irregardless of it's name. You can randomize all you want and I can 100% guarentee that actor will never do a thing.

Even if you clear these 3 hurdles, there are still 2 bots and 4 other hacks (ranging from neat to amazingly powerful) you can not stop using your solution.. and that's ignoring rogue actors.

Nothing you are looking at right now is new to the team. So get started on those 3 things.

®åkü*
12th March, 2002, 08:30 AM
bahhhhh

/me goes and plays solitare

BIOTech
15th March, 2002, 06:32 PM
:confused:
OK OK Grim... Your name is one of many that is tainted and will never come clean. I understand that many "hackers" start to see if its possible and then it turns into a perverted lust for the power you feel. I believe you are a ego maniac and just want to "join" anti-cheats for the rise you would get out of people. However, I know Dr. Sin, DB, TNSe, and the rest of the guys would rather piss on you than listen to your ideas. I programming it is so easy to find bugs, holes, exploits. But writing a secure piece of code to withstand hackers abuse is another story. I would go as far as dare you to write a piece of code that the UTPure team could not break. You see you are the lesser man for perpetuating a sham and thinking you are smarter than these people. In my book you are the lowest of life forms. I get sick to think that you would do something like this because you can. Many things in life can be done. There are reasons of integrity for most people not to do them. You though seem to have no self worth and obviously need people around you to proclaim you as thier God. You also say you ruined UT. Well the beautiful thing is this. You can't ruin what the game is. You can not only exploit the code for the game but also the people that play it. Human nature = cheat to win. You just enable people that share your lack of moral character to use these tools. I play with them. I know people bot. In the end I will still be here playing for love of the game and the great peeps I have met online. I will be the lowest rung on any online ladder and loving it. Why. Because assholes like yourself think you can ruin something you have never appreciated. FAIR PLAY. However there will always be players like myself that have tight knit UT buds that will never cheat and you can't break our circle no matter what files you can hack. FOREVER HARDCORE, FOREVER FAIRPLAY. Lets see your punk ass handle that. I get so sick of people trying to exploit technology that is made for other purposes. Never revolutionary enough to create something new only there to reverse engineer someone elses code and tamper with it. Wheres the talent in that?

You have wasted enough of my time writing this post. But its for others to read. You can continue to waste your time hacking. Just don't fool yourself into believing you can destory a game. Its about more than aiming and more than winning. Your efforts are lame at best and I bet Dr. Sin laughs at you from his seat in Epic as you continue to suffer the agony of being a God to kids... Maybe we should adopt the name [BWF]Barney or [BWF]BigBird for you. Seems to fit. <^> Grim!

TNSe
15th March, 2002, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by BIOTech
However, I know Dr. Sin, DB, TNSe, and the rest of the guys would rather piss on you than listen to your ideas.

Hey, I don't got this fetish for pissing on ppl so don't try it BIOTech. :P

It's not that I dislike listening to Grimmie, I have a large sense of humor, and find his posts most entertaining. But unfortunately he has not brought up anything new.

BIOTech
15th March, 2002, 09:08 PM
:o <pees on TNSe>

Ahh.. much better..

LoL I would agree that his posts are at the very least entertaining. But its the few people that understand security as well as he does that should not expose it to others. Kinda like Bill Gate$ going after people who expose flaws in XP. Grim might be the next victim of the "Blue Screen of Death Squads" sent out on sentinal seek and destory missions...

Oh yeah TNSe I don't have a pee fetish... now let me see your foot. :eek:

lik2hunt
12th April, 2002, 03:22 AM
I want to be in on kicking his ass when the time comes. Many of us out here are striving to keep our servers cheat free and scum like grimreaper need to have their ass kicked royally.

Ban him from here........Don't listen to him.........Cheaters never tell the truth. They only live to con you.

Inevitable
13th April, 2002, 02:31 AM
so he was abnned why? :confused:

KrazyFragger
13th April, 2002, 02:57 AM
I think people who are so smart and able to hack things should put their knowledge to help instead of being annoying.

I think Grim should just shut the fuck up and come back when he has something new that will actually work.

But yet again there will always be assholes being assholes ruining other peoples fun.

lik2hunt
13th April, 2002, 06:09 AM
You can count me in on the ass kicking.

Many of us admins spend a tremendous amount of time trying to keep our servers cheat free. If not for guys like Grim Reaper, we could play with a feeling of having fun without the worry of being cheated all the time.

The idiot deserves banning and should be banned. You can never trust a cheater as they live only to con others. Don't let him suck you in with his tear jerking redeemed soul story because it is the same lie he lives by.

Kick his ass out ..................

nexx_au
13th April, 2002, 09:11 AM
*cough* who made the first UT aimbot *cough*

Inevitable
13th April, 2002, 02:44 PM
Still dont know why he was banned but hey if he makes aimbots he sucks... :mad:

DrSiN
13th April, 2002, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by nexx_au
*cough* who made the first UT aimbot *cough*

Someone (who will remain nameless) made the first aimbot within the first week of UT shipping.

God I hate twits who don't really have a clue.

Inevitable
13th April, 2002, 11:32 PM
i think its was funbot..... :D guess who made it?? :P

TNSe
14th April, 2002, 01:16 AM
Heh, funbot was made long time after the one DrSiN talks about :P

DrSiN
14th April, 2002, 02:23 AM
hence the twits without a clue comment.

KrazyFragger
14th April, 2002, 10:40 AM
Hey i'm a twit but wasn't it the dude who worked for CSHP that made the first aimbot??! If so, thats funny

DrSiN
14th April, 2002, 08:09 PM
Nope.

Slash
15th April, 2002, 02:59 AM
I would like to apply for work at CSHP..I know nothing about code or software but after 2 years as a server admin I am an expert at banning twits..Since it appers from some of these posts that you have way to many 8 year olds with nothing but time on their hands registered here I would like to be named CSHP twit banner..I could bann all idiots who come here just to talk shit...I could bann all 8 year olds who's only input to problems or solutions are like that one above me.I could also bann all cheaters who have LMFAO seen the light..I could also bann the Morons who support these idiots new found purpose in the anti cheat community..I could also bann any scumbag who disrespects any member of the CSHP team in any way..They get to go first actually..
When its all said and done the forums can be a place for problem solving and solutions.Not wasted space for people who have no clue.

So I leave you my resume' in hopes that I can get on with the work that needs to be done..
:)

KrazyFragger
15th April, 2002, 02:08 PM
ok ok ok I got it, It was YOU DarkByte who made the first funbot. Don't you feel bad?! I wouldn't someone else would have soon enough

KrazyFragger
15th April, 2002, 03:04 PM
You know what? I'm just gonna shut the hell up

DarkByte
15th April, 2002, 09:05 PM
KrazyFragger:

Yes, i did an aimbot, and yes, this aimbot got leaked but if you had followed up the story you would know that Funbot was created to work on a protection i wanted to do myself. By that time i didnt know DrSiN or CSHP. I was working on EZTeams which already had some anti-cheat code against illegal Zooming. I discovered that client side code could be left running almost by mistake while i was trying to add Kick/Ban features to EZTeams. The aimbot leaked because i was too trustful into someone i thought wanted to support the cause but just wanted to put his hands on aimbot.

Also, once Funbot leaked, i went on and faced the consequences with dignity. I never turned my back on people and i started working on my own protection. It still took me 6+ months to get accepted in the CSHP team, and i wasnt really looking or begging to be part of it. I just wanted to stop the mess that i had unvoluntarily created. And i still want to stop it.

KrazyFragger
16th April, 2002, 02:34 AM
Well i'm sorry for not knowing the whole thing, thanks for explaining it to me. And a lot of people can't be trusted.

But I think you working on hacking UT or whatever wasn't wrong. You gotta see how to hack the thing and then you can be able to protect it. But if that person didn't steal your idea or your bot someone else would have came up with one anyways.

DrSiN
16th April, 2002, 04:32 AM
Allow me to also point out that neither DB or I created the first UT aimbot.

KrazyFragger
16th April, 2002, 05:30 AM
Okay, let's stop beating around the bush, who created the very first aimbot?! If he wants to remain unnamed that's ok

Elvis
16th April, 2002, 03:31 PM
I vote for Epic

DrSiN
16th April, 2002, 04:02 PM
It wasn't anyone at Epic.. but the person is well known in the UT community (hence I won't release his name). I don't believe his bot has ever been publicly available.

There were also several sightings of bots well before CSHP came to be from other sources. Several of the ClanBots that were sent to me back in the day had also been done well before any of the public bots were available.

And that's just bots.. there have been private cheats from almost day one in various forms.

But remember, as always the source of a bot sent to me is always kept confidential.

Elvis
17th April, 2002, 02:56 PM
I don't know about that, Loque the bot has serious aiming ability at anything Masterful or above. :)

Merc_Priest
20th April, 2002, 02:20 PM
don't forget the wallhack and radar Loque is famous for ....
dam bot :confused:

LoDogg
25th April, 2002, 04:35 PM
I agree Bots, hackers and all that jaz needed banded and need there ass kicked. I'm a Network Administrator and such a pain in the ass trying to keep people out who are a writing malicious code. Don't they have anything better to do??? I love UT and if I get a hold of some body in person god for bid they fill the force of the 20 Inch Pipes.

Lo DoGg OUT

Qixil
26th April, 2002, 06:14 PM
Personally I think it's a mistake to 'exile' anyone from any forum as long as they are open to debate.

Grimreaper may have some good ideas, or he may not and the same goes for his ego. But while he is on this forum he will see the reaction of your average gamer to his ideas.

This is probably something he doesn't think much about at the moment, but at the end of the day changing people like GrimReapers' mind is the only long term way to stop bots.

People with antisocial behaviour need to be integrated, not exiled.

Q8

BIOTech
26th April, 2002, 07:05 PM
I would agree but I'm still upset about Real Tournament and the same thing could happen if people like Grim ever get thier hands on the Pure file repository. I think conversations would help both sides but not development at first. Grim has things to offer... and remember that Pure is only here and continuing to help secure the game by "hackers" one upping them and creating the push for improvments. Its a two sided sword and you have to walk a fine line. Its kinda like security companies... find the best burglar and get him on your side. You can then develop measures to stop all of the "pros" tricks and have a better defense. Ramble ramble ramble... I'm tired...

BIOTech
26th April, 2002, 07:07 PM
P.S. I still hate cheaters, just see the need for the coders to talk. I doubt Grimm is the one using them most of the time. He can help, Pure needs to stop the llamas that sit in a server for hours letting the script do the work.

Xx Badblood xX
26th April, 2002, 08:05 PM
That is what I have been thinking all along... When Grimm came here, I didn't expect all the Pure code to be dumped into his hands, and I knew he wasn't going to be liked by a lot of people. That being said, I was hoping some discussion could be done to swap ideas on protection. For him, its all about coding challenge. Unfortunately, his first challenge to overcome was programming bots/hacks. That will forever leave a black mark in his history, but lets not give up on the ideas/programming that could be done here.

And you raise a good point when you say it's rarely the coders who use the bots. Thats absolutely true. There's two types of cheaters:

Hackers/Coders - they make the bots

Llamas - they use the cheat. These are the people who sit on our servers and get off on us being all pissed off that they are fucking up our game. They see themselves as bad-ass.

Hackers/Coders have some value. They can build code for good or bad reasons. Llamas are worthless. They have no skill in-game and they have no coding skill.

So basically, if coder's decide to go good, we should not put barriers up. We shouldn't let our guard down, but one less source for cheaters to go is a GOOD thing not a bad thing.

Aight, I'm done my rant now :)

rifleisgod
26th April, 2002, 09:29 PM
You guys just don't get it. The UTPure team had thought of and found the most reasonable soulutions to stopping the bots. Find bot that beats UTPure, release new version of UTPure to stop it. This circle will continue with or without Grimreapers help because UT is at an end, UT2003 will be out in 2-3 months. Also these guys have spent 6 months (?) on UTPure, you think Grimreaper is going to have the magic answer to stopping bots once and for all? Yeah, right. The UTPure team seems to be releasing new versions as newer bots come out, and thats how its going to remain. Like i said UT is at an end, they're starting to pave a way for cheat protection in UT2003. So stop kissing Grims ass just because he came out with ZP2.

Xx Badblood xX
27th April, 2002, 04:11 AM
sigh same thing...

Anyways, people aren't kissing his ass. The cheat community gets their cheats from coders. One less coder on their side is a huge hit to the cheaters. If anyone spies on "a particular cheat forum" you will know how much chaos was caused by Grimm leaving that community. Furthermore, the non-cheating community benefits from features that weren't available in zp before and finally we are working on new ideas for general cheat protection now.

Go ahead and hate, I'm done posting on this since it doesn't seem to make a difference. Your mind is made up so thats fine, I'm not going to argue it to death.

®âttlêsñâkê
13th September, 2003, 11:39 PM
Well..

Tbh i think UTpure team should let Grimreaper help them, what hes sayin makes sence about the holes. And well.. come on, this cheat protection aint working, so I would have thought wiv a hackers help we can stop cheats once and for all.

LeeBe
14th September, 2003, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by ®âttlêsñâkê
Well..

Tbh i think UTpure team should let Grimreaper help them, what hes sayin makes sence about the holes. &nbsp;And well.. come on, this cheat protection aint working, so I would have thought wiv a hackers help we can stop cheats once and for all.

omg this thread is from a year and a half ago! half the people posting in it arent here anymore and Grims gone onto making his bot for UT2003.

®âttlêsñâkê
14th September, 2003, 05:47 AM
LOL i looked for summat on google and ended up on this so i thought i might post :P

pizzaboy79
14th September, 2003, 10:42 AM
h'es not the only one. 2003 Protection is now old news. maybe pure shoudl consider 2003? :)

Aco
15th September, 2003, 12:28 PM
bleh screw 2k3 its a lost cause

your one to talk pizza :rolleyes:

pizzaboy79
15th September, 2003, 11:14 PM
o_O what does that mean. and 2003 has a better chance of surviving than UT

Aco
16th September, 2003, 03:30 AM
you know exactly what it means >:|

pizzaboy79
16th September, 2003, 05:28 AM
umm plz clarify what you mean. everyone who knows me knows i don't cheat, so i'm wondering where you are getting these accusations

Aco
16th September, 2003, 06:27 AM
stfu you, i haxed you and now i know all about your dirty panty steeling schemes!

pizzaboy79
16th September, 2003, 08:09 AM
(snicker) (innocent laughter) ROFLMFAO. wow. you're one special kid. you hacked me?? lol i always like to challenge these statements. ok ya punk, let's see your dirty panty schemes tell all of us what i "stole". lol.

Aco
16th September, 2003, 09:31 PM
hehe =) thought you would put one and one together by now

infact your incessent laughter almost made me think you did kekeke ^_^;

play detective mr columbo :]

come on ;)

i know you can figure it out, ttyl if ya do ;)~

pizzaboy79
16th September, 2003, 11:09 PM
lmao you lil' punk. (i figured out who he was)

Aco
16th September, 2003, 11:10 PM
only with my help

****ing dolt :rolleyes:

pizzaboy79
16th September, 2003, 11:13 PM
hey, i didn't say i was some sherlock holmes.

digz|uu
19th September, 2003, 12:12 PM
Lmao !!!!!

LeeBe
19th September, 2003, 01:12 PM
hmm I think I figured out who he was too.

but you said screw UT203?

If im right, your helping grim with his 2003 bot...am I?

Aco
19th September, 2003, 05:22 PM
lol this is all public knowladge now your late leebe :)

but yeah


and a lot more than just that;

http://forums.prounreal.com/viewtopic.php?t=41330

pizzaboy79
20th September, 2003, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by Aco
lol this is all public knowladge now your late leebe :)

but yeah


and a lot more than just that;

http://forums.prounreal.com/viewtopic.php?t=41330

hey, he's coming out of the closet. (oops don't take that in a gay way). lol jp aco ;)