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  #21  
Unread 9th December, 2004, 12:20 PM
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That's right Anth, and there are also many new players.
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  #22  
Unread 14th December, 2004, 06:50 PM
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Default UT Forever!

I think I've posted this before, so I'm sorry if it's trite...

The UT known as UTGOTY or UT99 is most attractive to many players.

It's problems are well known, and there are work arounds for most issues.

The "Game Dynamic" is unlike UT2Kx and as such many players "miss it" .. that good old feeling they used to get. Sure UT2Kx maps are more lush and rendering is better. But it's all at the expense of that old "Feel".

It would have helped if Epic could have improved the game engine without requiring that the maps be re-written to take advantage of the improvments. I suppose it was a lot to ask. I hope it wasn't because they didn't think to try.

Also, a tool to migrate the maps might have helped. Again, this may have been too complicated. Hell, it's so bad that UTPG can't even assure that the editor will be operable.

I really thought that the death of ngWorldStats would spell the end of UT99. So many players used to track their stats and work to improve their rankings that it really helped keep the game in the mainstream. The loss of that competitive arena had an impact, to be sure, but even that was not enough to kill it.

At this point, I don't think there's any killing it unless Epic were to kill the server advertising for it, and they somehow got GameSpy to do the same. Even if this were to happen, I suspect there would be such a rebellion in this organization and others that someone would write the software needed to replace the lost capability and advertise independant of Epic.

Just in case anyone from Epic or UTPG is reading this, I'd like to put in a plug once again for an updated DirectX renderer for this version of UT. The latest one doesn't handle Vertex Buffers correctly and causes intermittant GPFs when used on current hardware.

Long live UT G.O.T.Y. (UT99)
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  #23  
Unread 15th December, 2004, 01:16 AM
pLaYa pLaYa is offline
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Well digz its sure not ganna ever be that way with the cheats that are floating around... Theres really not that many people around anymore doing much to stop cheats... but UT is still more alive then 2k3 & 2k4.. both of those games were built for n00bs.. built for n00bs by n00bs... UT series is no longer for progamers... its for n00bs & cheaters... but most people I find leaving UT get cought up with life.. about 10% of the people i c quit are cause of cheats.. even if there were no such thing as cheats the game would still going down hill..

Sorry if i upset anyone who plays 2k3 or 2k4... but Epic could have done a waaaay better job then what they did... UT isn't what it use to be... I would have rather seen Epic release nothing after UT99...
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  #24  
Unread 15th December, 2004, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pLaYa
Well digz its sure not ganna ever be that way with the cheats that are floating around... Theres really not that many people around anymore doing much to stop cheats...
theres more now than there ever was :?
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  #25  
Unread 15th December, 2004, 06:22 AM
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naah before everyone work more as a team when building cshp and pure... I think anti cheats would be a bit more effected if they combine there resouces... like qvalidate + utdc would make a very effective anti cheat... if we combine our resources and share ideas more we would be able to take down alot more cheats... right now to stop a few cheats I have to run 4-5 different anti-cheats.. that do 3-4 different things... theres alot more anti cheats floating around maybe... but alot less team work...
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  #26  
Unread 15th December, 2004, 08:02 AM
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About cheats ... I live in Poland and here this problem is very small, the community is concentated in one place and on one forum(http://forum.unreal.pl) .... if anyone is suspected of having a cheat it will be his end ... and finally the good clans, which participate in the Polish UT League, will have to prove their skill on the finals which get place every year in Warsaw. Everybody understand that cheating sucks and is nonsense. All cheaters I encountered on my iCTF and duel servers were from other countries.
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  #27  
Unread 15th December, 2004, 08:30 AM
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Tue Nov 25 13:19:21 2003 Lord*DzIdZiAk*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Nov 25 13:19:56 2003 Lord*DzIdZiAk*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Nov 25 14:26:32 2003 **PL USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Nov 25 14:28:12 2003 **PL USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Nov 25 14:28:57 2003 *marek*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Nov 25 14:30:41 2003 *marek*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Nov 25 14:33:12 2003 *marek*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 00:06:56 2003 *marek*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 00:09:22 2003 *marek*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 00:10:44 2003 Kutas_pl USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 00:11:57 2003 kutas_PL USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 00:12:11 2003 kutas_PL USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 14:23:06 2003 Lord*DzIdZiAk*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 14:23:25 2003 Lord*DzIdZiAk*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Dec 2 21:40:01 2003 *Marek.PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST

we caught these using the first AntiFA there was a lot more but no need to post them here I think.

these players didnt have it as fast as they could, just a bit faster so as not to draw attention.

and UT isnt dead its got a good year or two yet
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  #28  
Unread 15th December, 2004, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeBe
Tue Nov 25 13:19:21 2003 Lord*DzIdZiAk*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Nov 25 13:19:56 2003 Lord*DzIdZiAk*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Nov 25 14:26:32 2003 **PL USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Nov 25 14:28:12 2003 **PL USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Nov 25 14:28:57 2003 *marek*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Nov 25 14:30:41 2003 *marek*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Nov 25 14:33:12 2003 *marek*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 00:06:56 2003 *marek*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 00:09:22 2003 *marek*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 00:10:44 2003 Kutas_pl USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 00:11:57 2003 kutas_PL USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 00:12:11 2003 kutas_PL USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 14:23:06 2003 Lord*DzIdZiAk*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Fri Nov 28 14:23:25 2003 Lord*DzIdZiAk*PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST
Tue Dec 2 21:40:01 2003 *Marek.PL* USING TWEAK FIREADJUST

we caught these using the first AntiFA there was a lot more but no need to post them here I think.

these players didnt have it as fast as they could, just a bit faster so as not to draw attention.

and UT isnt dead its got a good year or two yet
I don't know these players, they must be free and not feeling like members of the community. And I think UT will be alive as long as Epic won't release any better game. So it should be a refreshed UT99 version with improved engine etc.
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  #29  
Unread 28th March, 2005, 08:26 AM
DK-Ouch DK-Ouch is offline
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While www.utpg.org still resolves to an IP address, there isn't a web server running there at the moment. Are they still around?
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  #30  
Unread 28th March, 2005, 08:40 AM
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yes they're still there but work is still going very slow. There's been a lot of problems with the new mac client (dunno if they're fixed yet) and now it seems the Renderer needs an update as well.
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  #31  
Unread 28th March, 2005, 11:21 AM
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And this is where Mac haters will jump on the bandwagon and say that work for Macs doesn't need to be done seeing there are so few players using those systems. Correct ^^ ?
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  #32  
Unread 28th March, 2005, 11:50 AM
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I don't give a fuck about mac users tbh but I understand why it takes so long. From my own expirience I can tell that if development doesn't go fast enough you can never finish it. Guess that's what's happening to utpg
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  #33  
Unread 28th March, 2005, 12:28 PM
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Default UTPG Sympathy

Lets see, I just looked up the UTPG history of releases.....
Feb 17 2003 440 patch released
May 12 2003 First release of 451
March 13 2004 451b update (Interim security fix)
There seem to be notes that the MD5 patch and MAC OSX clients have been in work since at least October 29, 2003.

I do not think that the MAC community is to blame here. Obviously the common thread causing delay is the MD5 patch, and the need to have it be compatible over 3 OSs on the server side, and 2 major client side implimentations.

The fact is, UTPG has not sucessfully released an update before that was intended for the CLIENT side of the equation. All their server side releases have been compatible with the last Epic client patch, 436.
This is evidenced by their inability to make predictable changes to the editor. (That is not a criticism, Epic could barely make the thing work!)
I'm afraid we'll just have to wait it out. There is obviously so much invested in the MD5 effort that any other changes at this point would endanger more than 1/2 the total effort the UTPG team has put in up to this point. (Including ALL previous releases)

I think the community will have to prepare for the possibility that the MD5 patch may not be sucessfull enough to be compatible across all situations. I have no knowledge of how it's structured, but consider this:
  • If an MD5 patched server is released, will it require MD5 patched clients to be effective?
  • Won't this necessitate that all clients update to MD5 capability, otherwise they won't be able to play on all servers?
  • Will MD5 capable clients be able to play on 451x and 436 servers?

MD5 clients are only half the story. Maybe not even half. There are 3 OSs for servers. The major two being Linux and Windows. (That's if we ignore 64bit AMD systems)

When you consider all that, it's no wonder it is taking so long to get changes to behave compatibly between them all.

Let's think.. the OS list is:
  • Win 95 and 95B
  • Win 98 and SE
  • Win 2000 PRO, Server and Advanced Server editions
  • Win 2003 Server
  • Win XP
  • Linux (Various implimentations)
  • MAC OSX

... Not to mention PATCHES, SERVICE PACKS and versions of DirectX or OpenGL.

Of course in hindsight, we would have liked to have a more "incrimental" approach to moving foreward than to essentially "Starve" for what is going on 2 years now.

It's not our decision to make. It's UTPGs. Remember... Epic "abandoned us"... it's only because UTPG is out there that we can continue. Perhaps it's too harsh to say Epic has abandoned us entirely... they still handle server advertising and browsing.

If we were to start a movement that would make a difference, what would it be?

It might be to offer the idea of a "Purchased" UT release suitable for CLIENTS that would attend to some of the problems we have getting UT to run on current video hardware and drivers. Unfortunately I think it is outside UTPGs charter to take money or offer a product.

I know from personal experience that managing a software effort over multiple platforms can get very complex. It takes considerable presence of mind and leaves little room for anything else at times. These guys are working "Volunteer" they are not paid as far as I know. The only way I can think of helping is to allow them to do it full time.

Aw hell. I've rambled on too long.

Any other ideas?
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  #34  
Unread 28th March, 2005, 12:57 PM
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How many users use MAC OS to run UT99? Everyone is right in saying the balance should be struck - the most people playing in the best time, but the balance has been tipped in my opinion. I think this because 98% of UT99 owners are having to wait for a minority of users (in basic terms).

But they've started, they want to do it accross 3 operating systems so let them.

Quote:
Perhaps it's too harsh to say Epic has abandoned us entirely...
^ Don't think so. Epic abandonded us, but has kept full control of Unreal1 (engine) to squeeze every last bit of money out of it maybe? Do not know. Maybe Epic should abandon it completely, and declare it abandonware - thereby increasing the number of people who can work with the Unreal1 source for imporvements, for patches, for cheat protection?

Having said that, a fully released source for Unreal1 is mayhem with respect to cheat development I guess.

I wonder how many people worked on Unreal1 and the UT99 game. I'm sure its large. So take this number and compare it to the UTPG - a small collection of volenteers with working lives to lead outside of UT development. Then take into account they are basicaly readapting every bit of the the game; the engine, the netcode, the protocols...

They still have my respect for what they do.
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  #35  
Unread 28th March, 2005, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardukar
^ Don't think so. Epic abandonded us, but has kept full control of Unreal1 (engine) to squeeze every last bit of money out of it maybe? Do not know.
Grr, last bit of money you say ?? Than tell me why it is impossible to buy original UT in my country(Poland)?! I bought one 5 years ago, but that distributor do not have an active agreement with Epic anymore. It is even impossible to arrange a legal LanParty in an internet cafe because they always want a special type of license. Many ppl here would like to have a legal copy but there's no chance, or maybe low, sometimes someone sells UT on an internet auction.
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  #36  
Unread 28th March, 2005, 01:53 PM
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UTPG has been secretive the whole time. The first patches they released where rushed (afaik) because of the security advisories released back then. Because UTPG has been so secretive you can't tell what is causing the delays. The only info you have are the few responses from UTPG and the notes in Icculus' plan. And if I may believe what Icculus said is that there have been quite some issues with the linux port. Also something most people don't know. The original Mac port of UT99 was for MacOS9, which is very old. The new MacOS X is based on BSD and in a lot of ways very similar to linux. This makes porting a linux application to Mac OSX much easier. Easier than it would be to port a linux application to Mac OS9.

And another thing, there is no such thing as abandonware, either something become public domain after it's copyright becomes void (altough that might take a couple of years). Or the company released it as freeware. Abandonware is nothing more than illegal software. People try to declare software as abandonware when the software is no longer officially supported by the publisher or developer, and sometimes this can cause software to become public domain. Because of the copyright holder doesn't actively defend it's copyright it might lose it. So if you get an official "we don't care about X anymore" it became public domain.
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  #37  
Unread 28th March, 2005, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush
Grr, last bit of money you say ?? Than tell me why it is impossible to buy original UT in my country(Poland)?! I bought one 5 years ago, but that distributor do not have an active agreement with Epic anymore. It is even impossible to arrange a legal LanParty in an internet cafe because they always want a special type of license. Many ppl here would like to have a legal copy but there's no chance, or maybe low, sometimes someone sells UT on an internet auction.
Yes, through licensing the game to the companies that reproduce the slightly older games, like Collector.


Quote:
And another thing, there is no such thing as abandonware, either something become public domain after it's copyright becomes void (altough that might take a couple of years). Or the company released it as freeware. Abandonware is nothing more than illegal software.
Companies have been known the declare software abandonded and release it freely..
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  #38  
Unread 28th March, 2005, 07:31 PM
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UT is also unavailable in Belgium. Shame on me for using a copy ...but I do have the originals of UT2003, UT2004 & Unreal II. The game is simply not being sold anymore. One guy requested Quake 3 at the FNAC here (big shop in the capital) and he was told to get it off the Internet.
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