Anti Cheat

[Di'Vanessa]

I know a lot of you work on some form of Anti-Cheat.

I'm trying to learn as much as possible to join the Anti-Cheat effort. UT2k4 anti-cheats seems to be few steps behing 99 and a lot of step behinds Aim-Bots as few Aim-Bots aren't detected today.

( I have a 1 day old demo of a nice aimbot on a server with latest SG / AntiTCC, hard to detect by demo , I wouldn't be able to tell if it wasn't a scheduled demo someone made for me )

I know it may seems weird that someone want to jump in out of the blue, but so you know I'm a good engineer that make production grade game servers for a living ( I work as a lead engineer for one of the main game company out there ).

My problem is that I'm no expert of reverse engineering and no expert in Aimbot technology and terminology. So what I need is a few people to contact to explain to me the specifics of Hooks and the current basic detection ( I get the whoel file / MD5 shit but still more info would be usefull ).

Thank for your ttime, and if you believe you have time to chat with me, plz let me know.

[Shambler]

All you need is some c++ knowledge (asm can be helpfull too) + google and you can find out most of what you need.

I imagine that you will need to earn a lot of trust before people will directly share their knowledge A lot of people in the anti-cheat scene developed their skills/knowledge on their own and have gained that kind of trust/respect from showing their developments and their abilities.

EDIT:
I may get some flak for this but the best way to learn how to stop cheats is to learn how to code them first.

[Di'Vanessa]

No offense to anyone here but I have 10 years experience in C++ and I have been and I am a lead engineer on very high profile games.

So I have the background, what I lack are specific knowledge of how cheats are built and hookd into the UT engine.

What is a shame so far is that cheaters ( or should I say people coding Bots ) knowing i want to build anti-cheats are helping me more with information than the anti-cheat community.

I understand the trust issue, but I have been around in the UT community for
6 years, and I'm very well known and respected in the Ut2k4 CTF community. Also I'm not asking for info on how anti-cheats are built but on how Bots hooks in the games.... It's easier to get hold of the Anti-cheat and reverse engineer it than to learn of the specific of bots

If you want me to share some video/demo of basic bots bypassing the latest security ( anti-cheats ) I can do that, more peopel may share my concern then.

[Shambler]

Well at the moment the protections in UT2k4 are based on UnrealScript code which is inadequate for stopping todays cheats (so your C++ knowledge is an extremly good start), currently the best cheat protection in the unreal series of games is UTDC which you can find in these forums (I contributed minute snippets of source to that project)....it is coded by Troublesome and (AFAIK) is in C++.
That type of native protection would be the best step for UT2k4 atm and IMO is not a bad place to start research.

To see how some of the unreal engine's native code works I recommend downloading the UT1 v432 C++ source headers (I can't find a link offhand, it shouldn't be difficult to google...but here is a link to the wiki with some info about native coding in unreal http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/Native_Coding)
Now....The problem (for me at least, I have a VERY limited C++ knowledge) is that UT2k4 does not have these public headers! So you need to reconstruct them somehow or find alternative methods of creating similar .dll files for UT2k4. (remember...mac/linux/windows OS's will very likely need to be supported...good luck with that because IDK any1 who has had much success outside windows)


Most of what I detailed above is info that is not very hard to find thus I don't think anyone would have a problem with me posting it, let me know of your progress (past here it's probably best to keep discussions private)
To get more detailed information about cheats/anticheats it's best to privately contact the developers of the protections (UTDC/Safegame are the places to start I guess) and pry the cheating community for info, keep in mind that if these developers do not know you then you might get very limited help if any at all. (I can't speak for them obviously, mainly saying not to expect much help before building a rep)
IMO it's best to start researching stuff on your own, a lot of what I know (and haven't mentioned) I taught myself.

Man long post...hope that's of some help, l8rs.

[Di'Vanessa]

Thank for your help, Yes I want to build a ut2k4 C++ based anti-cheat system.
Uscripts won't cut it, too easy to reverse engineer.

My main problem is I need basic question answered. How do you get a C++ anti-cheat protection working with the unreal engine, you need to wrap it into .u ? How does this get deployed to clients ? What is the basic way Bot hook to the engine ? As far as the ut2k4 header goes I will figure them out.

[Troublesome]

you know if that is legal?

[2399Skillz]

Originally Posted by Troublesome

you know if that is legal?

If what is legal?

[Wormbo]

Originally Posted by Di'Vanessa

Thank for your help, Yes I want to build a ut2k4 C++ based anti-cheat system.
Uscripts won't cut it, too easy to reverse engineer.

My main problem is I need basic question answered. How do you get a C++ anti-cheat protection working with the unreal engine, you need to wrap it into .u ? How does this get deployed to clients ? What is the basic way Bot hook to the engine ? As far as the ut2k4 header goes I will figure them out.

I suggest you contact Epic for some support with the native part of UT2004. Not only do they know the engine better than any of us, they also have the real source code files of the game - cheaters only have some self-generated files which are neither easy to understand nor complete.

[Di'Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Wormbo

I suggest you contact Epic for some support with the native part of UT2004. Not only do they know the engine better than any of us, they also have the real source code files of the game - cheaters only have some self-generated files which are neither easy to understand nor complete.

Some cheater I met claim they have the real header files. I wasn't able to verify that information.

[Shambler]

Oh yea the legal part, forgot bout that

I'm sure Epic would permit you to create .dll files for cheat protection purposes, getting source access (even for simple limited headers) is a totally different question tho...It's not just handed out and if they agree you will have to sign an NDA (Non-disclosure agreement) basicly saying you will not hand it around to anyone else.

IMO you should experiment with writing stuff in UT1 first and then use that experience to move on to UT2k4 and use whatever developments you make in UT1 to convince people (Epic esp.) that your genuine.


To answer your questions:
How do you get a C++ anti-cheat protection working with the unreal engine
If you read the wiki link I gave you in my last post it should explain in detail how to compile a .dll in UT1 and how to link that .dll to an unrealscript file, here is the public source (googled): http://www.lamce.ufrj.br/grva/game_e...t432pubsrc.zip

How does this get deployed to clients ?
Have to work out a way of doing that yourself you will almost certainly have to have clients download manually the first time...if you build in an updater for your protection then clients wont have to redownload manually all the time. (would be well worth the time IMO)

What is the basic way Bot hook to the engine ?
Sorry but you must research this on your own, however it is not difficult to find out.

L8rs.

[Di'Vanessa]

Thank man. You are being most helpful.

[Rize]

Don't give up Vanessa, You can do it! I look forward to beta testing your new anti cheat. Just sign me up to help you in any way ( am no programmer ).

[Shaydee]

Originally Posted by Di'Vanessa

What is the basic way Bot hook to the engine ?

you should also consider that cheats and their prevention-counterparts usually undergo something like an evolution. if there were one single way how cheats work, then one single anti-cheat addon would be able to wipe out all existing cheats. but the thing is that cheat developers often exploit previously untouched areas of the engine to embed their modifications.

[Sigurd]

Its not gonna happen. Epic wouldn't release headers to anyone and from the way i have seen them ban i seriously doubt they care about this game that much. Or its customers for that matter.

[Shambler]

Well take a look at the UTPG team (www.UTPG.org), they were community members given full-access to the UT1 source code.

Even without header access to UT2k4 you could try some tricks to get a .dll working and linked with UScript in UT2k4 and present it to them as some sort of proof of your skills...and from that ask permission to continue.
I can't see a reason why they would not permit someone to develop a native protection for UT2k4, they know the inadequacies of UScript protection as much as anyone else...they should support it.

[PizzaMan]

Originally Posted by Shambler

they should support it.

They should develop it.

[Shambler]

Yes but they are not obliged to so they wont (waste of resources/money in their mind...why work on a cheat protection for an old game when you can spend those resources making a new game)

Hopefully UT2k7 will be different in regards to cheat protection but in UT2k4 we will simply have to rely on (and be gratefull for) any support Epic gives the community.

[PizzaMan]

UT2004 isnt that old?

I think if they really cared in the first place, they would spend some resources on stopping cheaters in stead of expecting other people to do it for them. They could for example get some help from Even Balance.

[Rize]

I mean they don't give a flying f*ck about stopping bots ON THEIR OWN SERVERS!!! It's just a show of face saying " we take cheating very seriously " etc but they do nothing.....and I mean nothing about it. If they really cared ( which they don't, remember just like all the pro players the only thing they care about is $$$ )they would do everything in their power to help promote / protect their game etc, but....they dont!

[Shambler]

IMO it's more worth spending the time getting it right first in UT2k7 instead of wasting time trying to repair what they got wrong in UT2k4.


Remember there was an attempt from Epic to provide protection...and that attempt is what AntiTCC/Safegame are based upon AND that attempt was implemented by Joe Wilcox aka Dr.SiN who (IIRC) led (maybe just took part in IDK) the UTPure team (one of the community based protections in UT1) and later got hired by Epic.

Admittedly it was a pretty flawed attempt seeing as it was mainly based in UScript and unchanging native code but personally I wouldn't be so quick to bash Epic, it is my experience that they are very ready to provide help with things so long as they have the time and so long as the developers approaching them have patience. (It is more likely that a few knowledgable members of the community have more time/special expertise to implement a protection that is good enough to keep cheats out...keeping cheats out means constant updating thus constant use of time/resources)

I should also say that cheats are not that big a problem in most of UT2k4, it would still 'just be nice' to have a native protection.